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Top Ten Giants of All Time
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RRoble |
Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 24 2009, 6:39 PM EDT
I searched the 'Discussion' board and could not find a "Top 10 Giants of All Time" thread. The Giants.com poll about your favorite 2009 Giants player got me to thinking about the history of the team, the many players and the elite Hall of Fame members over the years. Who are the top Ten and where would I put Eli? :)This Giants fan has one good opinion: http://history.giants.com/video/6351351/Top+10+New+York+Giants+of+All+Time What is your opinion of the top Ten Giants of All Time? Den, GMen, Ali, everybody, let's hear it... LT on top is easy. Is Jacobs worthy of #10 already? I love Carl Banks (Spartan) but not at #5. I am impressed with his ranking of Bavaro at #2! Need some more time to think this over myself will put my list up shortly. Have fun! Do you find this valuable? |
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den/nyg |
1. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 25 2009, 10:29 AM EDT
Not watching video.LT is #1,Strahan is #2,Simms is #3,#4 is Bavaro,#5 Tiki,Carson gets my #6 Gifford is #7,Robistelli #8,Huff #9,Toomer#10.This whole list is debatable based on a myriad of criteria.I assigned based on players I actually saw,Hofers I like,Team record holders,Favorites!
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gmen11 |
2. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 25 2009, 11:53 AM EDT
Tough call here. No certain order : Taylor, Huff, Barber, Robistelli, Marshall, Simms, Carson, Strahan, Elliot, Toomer. No disrespect ment to Tittle, Bavaro, Banks, Gifford, Van Pelt, Oates and on, ( i love them all) but my list attempted to include the best at as many positions possible. Jumbo may be a surprise to some but IMO he was the best left tackle we ever had and had he not injured his back towards the end of his career, would have had HOF consideration. Similarly Leonard was the a game changer for a long period of time and best DT we ever had IMO and has to get recognized on this list. Toomer got the nod over Bavaro and Tucker due to longevity excellence and numbers but either TE could easily be there too.
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gmen11 |
3. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 25 2009, 1:20 PM EDT
Just watched the video; thanks to the producer; always love the videos of NYG put to music. For me, too early for #27, & #10, perhaps 4-5 years from now at high level but not now. Mark is one of my favorite Giants all time and meant so much to the running game as well as the passing game, but way too high for me in the 2 hole. Objectively speaking, Bavaro played only 6 years for us and at the end of the day had a total of only 28TD's. Likewise, Banks was a great warrior, but #5 and at the exclusion of Harry Carson and Sam Huff? Na ah. I even think my boy Simms is too high at 3, but that's me. There are at least three of his/her Top 10 all time that played < 10 years for Big Blue! These lists are so subjective and difficult for many reasons. As they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just a guess that our talented producer is a younger Giant fan that does not go back too far with NYG. Please note: does not make that person inferior to anyone else. Just an observation and I would be interested to know. Best ever or Top 10 "for me" indicates Greatness + consistency + duration. One of the reasons YA or Francis T. did not sneak into my Top 10.
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RRoble |
4. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 25 2009, 1:52 PM EDT
Den it's a two minute video with some rockin music, check it. Gmen11, if this fan is young I like that he ranks Frank 'the tank' Gifford #6. Ali, where r u? Heard u spoke to Carl Banks on the radio this AM!!
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revmoran |
5. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 25 2009, 6:31 PM EDT
| Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 8:46 PM EDT
Does "of all time" include the men who played both ways in the era before WWII? I would think you'd have to start with the Giants in the Hall of Fame. And I'd put Steve Owen as the tops of all time - captain of the team that won the first NFL championship for the Giants and a great 30 year career both as a player and coach. Mel Hein would be on my list, too - charter member of the Hall of Fame.
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den/nyg |
6. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 26 2009, 9:58 AM EDT
Roble I did watch video after I made my picks,did'nt want any bias,it was well done,I didn't agree with all of his choices but understand that an arguement can be made,pro or con,for all of them.The problem with subjective lists is the vagueness,criteria wise.Is it top 10 all-time period,statistically,personal favorite,what about intangibles like one's effect on team?An HOFer then might not be an HOFer today.The criteria changes decade to decade.All that being said my list (I tried)has a little of everything,there are players I would add or delete if a more definitive decision on what exactly we were listing came to pass.Revmoran I would say yes to your question.
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RRoble |
7. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 26 2009, 12:45 PM EDT
Whenever I think of an 'All Time' list, unless there is no said criteria or intangibles to consider ladies and gentlemen, keep it simple. After WWI, before WWII, during Vietnam, it all mattters! Who are your FAV top 10 Giants of ALL TIME? Don't answer this question with your own questions, just list your top ten Fav Giants.Gmen11, I like your definition, however, I would only add that 'Duration' is overrated. Injuries, war and trades happen, but that should not change where someone goes in your personal top 10 Giants list. A little bit of everything is the way to go Den! Wow, with such a wonderful Giants history, Steve Owen might take LT's place as #1, now I'm not sure Revmoran, you really got me thinking!! Do you find this valuable? |
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gmen11 |
8. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 26 2009, 5:39 PM EDT
Den, Roble won't let me add longevity into my Top 10 formula. Phooey I say. OK I guess therefore I must add Plaxico to my Top 10 and remove Amani Toomer (NOT) and he will add Hostettler for his Top 10 QB and remove Eli Manning, seeing that Jeff had a better QB rating AND completion percentage AND also has a SB ring.......careful what you ask for my friendly "wheel watcher" LOL j/k
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aliconig |
9. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 26 2009, 8:01 PM EDT
here i am - and yes - i must say it was a wonderful time. got the lead off hitter for the 6am hour with Randy Cross and Carl on Sirius NFL Radio. Great little PSL chat! :)
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RRoble |
10. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 26 2009, 10:04 PM EDT
So U and Carl Banks on the radio huh, sweet! So is he worthy of being the #5 All Time Giant? GMen11, way to be flexible and not surprised you yanked Eli, but for Hosetettler, hmmm. And you also tossed in Plax, wow, somethings fishy, never figured he would be in your top 10 for whatever reason. Plaxico will be on my list because he's a Spartan like Carl Banks & Brad Van Pelt (RIP.) Do you find this valuable? |
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aliconig |
11. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 3:14 AM EDT
Carl worthy - DEFINITELY! Intelligent on the field and off. Good guy too - he was so supportive of the Giants ownership and Wellington during my call. He said they really get the situation - my big question was about why we haven't really heard much of anything from ownership. He said that they really get it and want to find some way to help the fans who made the game what it is, but they just haven't come up with a good way at this point. B: Plax on your list??? Come on. He doesn't make mine. Let me think about this list this weekend. Do you find this valuable? |
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revmoran |
12. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 9:55 AM EDT
| Post edited: Jun 27 2009, 9:57 AM EDT
Come on, people! Again, I say you're over-looking the first 25 years of the Giants' history with these choices - When Steve Owen was asked to pick an all-time Giants team in 1952 he picked as ends Jim Poole, Ray Flaherty (HOF), and Morris Badgro (HOF); tackles were Al Blozis, Ed Widseth, and Cal Hubbard (HOF); Guards were Len Younce, John Dell Isola, and Butch Gibson; Centers Mel Hein (HOF) and Joe Alexander; QB Ed Danowski, Benny Friedman (HOF) and Jack Hagerty; Halfbacks Tuffy Leemans (HOF), Kink Richards, Ward Cuff and Hinkey Haines; FB Ken Strong (HOF), Jack McBride, Phil White. When asked to pick an all-time NFL eleven Owen put two Giants on the squad - Mel Hein and Cal Hubbard - both on offense and defense. Tim Mara bought an entire team just to get Benny Friedman. My father played with Hein and lived to see LT play - he felt they were on a par with each other as linebackers. He also felt Ken Strong was one of the greatest all-around players of all time on any team. And on the 2008 Donruss Classic Triple cards you'll notice they group Ken Strong with Jim Thorpe and Sammy Baugh - that's the level of Strong's achievements.
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gmen11 |
13. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 10:41 AM EDT
den said it early on; the criteria is too subjective. revmoran makes great points to our team early on, but most of us have little point of reference on those players, while RR picks players he likes or are Spartans...was big bust Bunch (jarrod) Michican or Mich State? LOL We are all guilty of picking a Top 10 from some point of bias. For instance, I tried to pick as many positions as possible, as to get a DL and an OL on my list so I had to keep Carl out of my Top 10, because as great a player/person he was , he could not supercede LT, Harry Carson or Sam Huff in any way shape or form so to pick him also I would have had 4 LB's/ out of 10 players. Was Carl a better LB than Jumbo Elliott was a LT? Who impacted the team more? Tough call. I was joking about Plax and Hoss b/c Roble said duration does not matter to him, so to bust RR's privates, I added Hoss over Eli because he has a better QB rating and com. % than Eli and also has a ring. If we want to narrow on in getting as objective list as possible the criteria would have to be slimmed down. I.E. pre-modern era or modern era and not based on personal preference; a very difficult task to accomplish. Another case in point is one of my "favorite" All time Giants, Mark Bavaro; a great TE, blocker and player/person in every way, but six years and scored a total of 28TD's...4.25 per year, can we justify putting him ahead of Amani Toomer or Bob Tucker? Was Bavaro more valuable than C Bart Oates who anchored a great great O-line that won 2 Super bowl Championships or even OT William Roberts that was also on both of those teams? Again tough call for me. I loved guys like Joe Morris, Harry Galbreath, Jim Burt, Karl Nelson, Brad Van Pelt, Rodney Hampton, Howard Cross and Jeff Hostettler was a fantastic QB who threw some clutch passes for us to beat the heavily favored Bills in SB XXV, but picking only 10 players of all the GREATS that have graced the gridiron since 1925 is almost impossible....
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RRoble |
14. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 11:43 AM EDT
Geez, these past 2 posts are two of the BEST on the entire site! Love it. Really got me thinking about Giant history, impressive and exciting. Ali, I'll give u the same props as soon as we see your list! Den, u are up. Shii, Mnt, AA, what say ye?Here is what I am working with in no order yet: LT, Steve Owen, Carl Banks, Phil Simms, Plaxico Burress, Brad Van Pelt, no idea who he is but i respect Rev's word and the dude's accomplishments so will put in Met Hein, Mark Bavaro and Eli Manning. That leaves me with 1 spot left. Giants on the fringe: Brandon Jacobs, YA Tittle, Joe Morris, Harry Carson, Frank Gifford, Sam Huff, Amani Toomer, Jumbo Elliot, and Michael Strahan. If you see someone on my 'fringe' list who should be my 10th addition to my All Time Giants list, convince me! No Tiki. I'm leaning towards Gifford or Jacobs... Do you find this valuable? |
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gmen11 |
15. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 12:16 PM EDT
Say it isn't so RR!!!, our leader of the site, we look to you as our general, our anchor when we lean too far one way or the other, our voice of reason but c'mon my blues brother, Plaxico Buress a Top 10 all time NYG over our BEST Modern era 5 time All Pro 2 SB Ring wearing Center Bart Oates? Carl "take it to the Bank"s over HOF Harry Carson or College & Pro Football HOF Robert Lee "Sam" Huff? How? Why? When? Eli Manning over 7 time Pro Bowler and HOF'er Yelberton Albert Tittle? On a football field; that is not remote controled by X-BOX? My favorite current Jint, Jacobs perhaps over Tiki Barber? Why, because Barber unprofessionally questioned Eli's leadership perhaps? Truth be told Tiki, though very wrong for what he said PUBLICLY, may be responsible for lighting the flame that has helped Manning become a competent NFL QB. Roble, as our commander and chief, me thinks you need to do some more objective research before your final list is posted. I know feelings can never be wrong, but opinions should be based on some sort of logical facts/intangibles no? Mel Hein (the dude?) I think even the Soccer guys from the other site are chuckling some...........Ali, Cobalt, other regulars that have not joined the friendly correspondence, what sayest thou?
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aliconig |
16. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 12:25 PM EDT
i'll get back shortly - i have to think about it - long work week/brain tired. based on the last few posts, i have a lot to think about - 10 is clearly a smaller number than I thought. I will tell you that Plax will not make my list, nor will BJ - as much as I think he is great, it's too early to make the top 10. B: Jumbo Elliot in the top 10???? Mike Strahan, LT, Harry Carson definitely make it without question. Maybe too early for Eli too in my mind - but Amani and Joe Morris, Phil Simms and YA Tittle may definitely make the list. I have to think about this some and I'll be back. YA Tittle, Frank Gifford, Do you find this valuable? |
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gmen11 |
17. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 12:51 PM EDT
Ali, you have a valid arguement questioning my pick of John Jumbo Elliott, so here is my only justification (logical?> for you all to decide). IMO He was our best LT and they are the dudes LOL that protect our right handed QB's that we either live or die with. Jumbo was a favorite of Bill "Tuna" Parcells as well as John Madden and because of the relevance of his position and being perhaps the best LT we ever had, I had to give him a Top 10 spot. I did not play OL or DL, but we all know w/o them "mudders", the so called "skill players" do not fair too well. If the consensus is that Jumbo is evaluated way too high, I won't put up a fight, b/c again it is so diificult to say what 10 had the most impact and helped us win. den, plz turn off your Mike Jackson CD and opine......you can get back to the legendary stuff later.
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aliconig |
18. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 3:10 PM EDT
Okay - this was not easy, and you will see I thought beyond my initial instinct here. Please note that I am NOT considering folks who have only been playing for 5 years or less - there are several who can make this list - but I do think it is too early to say they are the Top 10 Giants of all time at this point (sorry BJ and Eli - someday). There are definitely a lot of Giants who deserve big kudos for making our team what it is, but here goes:Top 10 (in no order): Andy Robustelli, Frank Gifford, Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, Phil Simms, OJ Anderson (this was hard, but I did pick him over Joe and Tiki, who are both 2 of my personal favorites of all time), Leonard Marshall, Mike Strahan, Amani Toomer, Bart Oats My next bunch are, again in no order: Mel Hein, Rosie Brown, Sam Huff, Mark Bavaro, Sean Landeta, Carl Banks, George Martin, Brad Van Pelt, Joe Morris, Tiki Barber If you want my rationale, I'll tell you - but that's my story. Do you find this valuable? |
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gmen11 |
19. RE: Top Ten Giants of All Time
Jun 27 2009, 3:40 PM EDT
very interesting and objective list that really intrigues me! I particularly like the mentioning of Sean Landetta, George Martin, OJ Anderson (The U) and Rosie Brown.....all great players; absent from your more modern list of Jints a bit curious to me is YA Tittle, the player that some Big Blue fans consider the best QB in our franchise history. I absolutely loved Ottis Jerome Anderson and followed his decorated college and pro career, but it is hard for me to see him over Barber though I never really warmed up to Tiki's personality. I know Barber was never MVP of a SB, but there a better than 50% chance that had Tiki played on our 1990 team behind one of the best lines we ever had, he too could have very well won that award in that same situation? This fan thinks so and what gives Barber the nod for me is a 4.7 yard lifetime per carry average.....tied for the 3rd highest in NFL history with the disgraced OJ and behind Sanders and Jim Brown.....Should Landetta make our modern Top 10......I would not have ever thought about it, but now that you mention it............hmmmm I hate to say this but the way Tiki created so much turmoil on his way out I am glad he never won a SB ring with us....bad perhaps, but just being honest.
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